Sep 26, 2020
Welcome to the Thinking Big Podcast. Today we have a special guest Boyd Hamlin and we are going to talk about ACTiTUDE: Act your way into a positive life.
Boyd has battled through 2 brain surgeries, lives with transverse Myelitis and has had to get back up many times in life after being knocked down.
As a minister, speaker, trainer and coach, Boyd is all about 3 things: Encouraging, Equipping, and Empowering others to battle through and not go down.
Boyd is the creator of The Hero Builder program to help influencers of youth set a character foundation they can build their lives upon.
Currently, Boyd is working on a book called 'ACTiTUDE' to help others live their best lives.
I love it when people bring their passion into their careers, when they turn huge life events into something that can help so many other people.
Today we are thinking big on ACTiTUDE.
Connect with Boyd Hamlin at the following social media link:
Connect with Sean Osborn at Thinking Big Coaching
Join the 7-day Think and Grow Rich Challenge
Welcome to the thinking big podcast. Today, we have a special guest Boyd Hamlin, and we're going to talk about aptitude act your way to a positive life. Boyd has battled through two brain surgeries lives with transverse myelitis and has got back up so many times after life has knocked him down as a minister speaker trainer and coach Boyd is all about three things, encouraging equipping and empowering others to battle through and not go down. Boyd is the creator of the hero builder program to help influencers of youth set a character foundation that they can build their lives upon. Currently, Boyd is working on a book called actitud to help others live their best lives. I absolutely love it when people bring their passion into their careers and when they turn huge life events into something that can help so many people. So today we are thinking big on aptitude.
I really want to welcome Boyd to to the podcast today before we get started and get into some of the fantastic stuff that you're doing. Tell the listeners a little bit about you. We'll absolutely thanks Sean, for having me on today. And my background really is been in youth ministry for over 20 years. I was in youth ministry for my very first time, just straight out of college in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I spent about seven years in there and then started speaking at a peer church organization for their conferences. And in that process, I was recognized by a church that's in Amarillo, Texas, and was asked to come and be an expert in their middle school ministry and their program. And my wife and I went and did that. And that was a great experience for Chevy years as well.
So you're probably, you're probably familiar with Borger. I am. I lived in Borger. Oh, you did? Yes. That is a fantastic place. And I do believe that if not in Borger, someplace around a community, the churches now call it hillside Christian Church. They've got a multisite campus there that is doing very well. They've got several of those in the panhandle area and the school very well, but I decided to take a challenge and come to New Mexico. I've been given a challenge for about five years consistently you need to plant a church. And I said, that's not for me. Well, I ended up taking the challenge anyway, because I was told you're too much in your comfort zone. And we came out to New Mexico to start a church plant. And I found out very quickly that I was out of my comfort zone, but I also was out of my strength zone.
And 12 years later we, we felt like we could be released from that church. My experience, it was really taken its toll financially. And so I left that particular place that we were renting that day. I wanted to keep integrity and pay them their last check. When I drove away from that facility I had this nudge, you know, it's a lot of people say, it's a spirit speaking to you and it's to go to this school that you've been helping as a church with their low income families with meals for the last four years. And I thought, you know what? I don't really want to go to a school today because there's kids in there. And I really don't want to be around young people today. It was kind of a crazy moment. It's like now what do I do now?
Right. And I did end up turning around in a Walmart parking lot and headed back to that school and met with the assistant principal. And that later introduced me to the principal. And it was in that moment, they asked me, can you create a character growth program for our school? We're having issues with our kids. And all the programs we've used before just don't seem to work the way we need them to. So over the course of the next month, I painstakingly went through with pen and paper. What, what really kind of program would they need? What kind of thing can they use that simple yet gets them great results fast. And I came up with the hero builder and it is a great character growth program. And the school actually saw results within two weeks. And now it's in about six different schools and they're seeing the same exact thing.
And right after that experience I'll just throw this in. Sean, just, just for fun. I thought that was building some momentum and that was a new direction that I was going to be going in. Right. And October the 11th of 2018, I told my wife I'm going out for a walk. I just wanted to just spend some time thinking about some things and hopefully strategically thinking about some things and something popped the, on the left side of my head in the back. And what was a 20 minute walk, ended up turning into an hour for me to get home all of my right side shut down. And my head just it felt like a vertigo is what it really felt like. Right. And just knew that I had something wrong. I had had a brain surgery in 1995 with what they call a main geomap or a cavernous malformation.
And the chance of me having another one was, was very good at that time. But they said it shouldn't bother you for the rest of your life. Well, it came a little too soon and I ended up going to the Barrow neurological Institute in Phoenix, Arizona for my second brain surgery. And in the, in the process of the last 18 months almost two years, two and a half years I've been doing a recovery from that and just getting my feet back underneath me. And it's been a, it's been a challenge. It's been a challenge yet to say the least,
How do you, you know what, we'll get back into other stuff, but on the, on the hero builder stuff, how do you think that can work in this new world of home-based stuff, where we're all staying at home or isolating where, you know, my granddaughter, matter of fact, she's not going back to school this year, she's doing everything from home. How do you think that same type of, you know, hero builder framework? How does that work from a home standpoint?
Oh, that's a great question. And it really can work from a home standpoint. I think that because of all of the problems that we have now with with our school system, with the coronavirus and what it's you know, what it's caused for Asha in that field. I think that my focus has had to shift a little bit from schools as a physical location to families and to parents. And so I think it really can work there as well. This program not only has a, a, a really detailed manual that I put together for it, but I've also done videos and training sessions for teachers and parents. And they're really good there. It's real simple, but it's a very good like I said, just a little while ago, it gets really good results. I did not purposely write it for preschool. And there is a preschool here in New Mexico that is called the Primo preschool in the whole state. And I don't know if you if you've ever been to a preschool, but this preschool has 1200 kids in it, and I'm thinking, wow, 1200 hours every single day that you guys deal with
That does not sound like a lot of fun.
Yeah. That, that does not sound like a lot of fun. And the principal of that school said, I want your program. And I did let her know. I didn't intend for it to be for preschool is for elementary and middle school students, but she wanted in any way. And she's been using the program in her preschool for the last three years, and nothing has changed with the program. She's not utilized everything that's included in it, but what she needs, she has taken from it and has made a culture there at her preschool with her teachers and parents that she has strived for. Oh, that's fantastic. It's really, really exciting.
So what is kind of the framework of the, of that program?
The framework of that program is, you know, a lot of programs. Of course, I looked into this before putting it together. A lot of programs do a lot of teaching and we absolutely need teaching. But along with teaching, I thought that it was really important for the students to see it modeled. And then once the teachers and their parents see the students acting into one of those character skills that is in their program, that it's celebrated right in, in some way. And one of the big deals with the hero builder is every, every month, every week, let's say, let's say it's a Monday. You walk into your classroom or into your living room nowadays, to do your homeschooling. And the kids are introduced to a word that they're going to work on for the week. It's a emotional, social, emotional learning platform for character development.
But let's say the word is just very simply helpful. There is a one pager in there that defines the word, and that gives them a, a little kind of a three by five card. That's got that word on. It was a couple of ideas to get their juices flowing and get their creativity going. How can I be helpful today to others? Right? And then they are able to be helpful to others. Not, not just be told to be helpful, but everyone is working on this together. And at the end of the day, they get to write in a hero's journal. What kind of things they did during that day that was helpful to somebody else, or what did other people do for me that was helpful for me. And at the end of the week, they get to share that with one another and celebrate that not always with a pizza party, but just be recognized.
It gives some affirmation to that young person to say, you're heading in the right direction. And we want to recognize that personally and visually today, rather than you guessing all the time, if you did a good job, there's that, there's that question is it's typically deemed as a two year old question that I do. Good. And I think that that's a question that maybe started when we were two, but we've never grown out of that affirmation. And I'm a little bit of a just kudos, you know, the attaboys that people need to know that, Hey, you're doing good
And everybody needs that. Yeah, absolutely. Everybody needs that. And I think somehow we need to learn how to do it to ourselves too. Cause we we're, we're, we're fantastic at, you know, getting ourselves you know, in a negative way. But doing it in a positive way, we all need that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,
And so like, one of the things that I've started doing with with my granddaughter is we got her a, a journal. And one of the things in the journal is daily gratitudes that she writes down what she's grateful for, you know, that day. And I think these types of programs are extremely, not only I think, are they extremely important but they're very much needed. And I think it's needed even more now with environment that we're in than ever before. I think we have to have these programs for the kids. We've got to be able to get these kids to have those affirmations, have those positive beliefs, have those positive thoughts and God sitting at home. It's just, boy, it seems like it's going to be a hard, hard road.
Yeah. Do you mind if I share a story from one of the schools that use this program? Absolutely. Absolutely. There is a school in North Carolina, a Clover garden. I do believe it's a consolidated school and the way that they use the program, there are also mentioned their third year of using different aspects of it with their students and with their staff to maintain that culture that they want there at that school, there was a young boy, a first grader who during recess, they have been outside playing on the playground, which, you know, then on playgrounds nowadays, they have the wood chips all around so that kids don't have to play on, see Matt all the time in different places. And the teacher called the students in from their recess time. And this young man and his buddy were still hanging around the slide they weren't playing, but the teacher couldn't figure out what they were doing.
And when she went out to ask them what was on, Hey guys, it's time to come in one. The young man said, I'm, I'm being helpful today to my friend. He lost his tooth on the playground and we have to find it. And it sounds so silly, but that young man took that word so seriously. He had to not think about being helpful. He had to physically be helpful to his friend until they found that too. And the good news is they found it. And that young man got awarded for being helpful and being a hero to his classmates that day. So that it's really good. They're always looking for ways that they can do what we're asking them to do.
Right. Oh, that's, that is a, that's a great story. And, and again, I think this is, I think we're missing a lot of that in today's education. It is, you know, it seems to be that it's just more, you know, you're gonna learn this and not, I don't even think they're actually being taught. They're just being taught to a test. And in a sense, they're not being taught how to think for themselves. And I think that, you know, programs like this, you know, teach kids how to think for themselves, you know, actually how to think and not just what to think.
Absolutely. I think you're right. This character program and just like other character programs, all we're trying to do is help the students by laying a foundation that they can truly build their lives. Right. They're going to forget taking that task, but they're not going to forget helping somebody else standing out and be an extraordinary being respectful to those around them. And yeah, there's 36 of the character words, but it's just a start. It's not a, it's not a complete list, but it is a start and it is a detailed enough of a list that it does take a while to get through. If we were doing this in a physical location for a school, there's also three assemblies that I built into it that I don't have to actually show up and do personally it's for the principal or for their teachers and staff, or if they find a parent that's great communicator, right?
They can do it for the students and save themselves a lot of money as a school district, by having people come in and do an assembly here and there, this program allows you to do three assemblies by themselves for their own student, body and video scripts on how to create the videos using their own students and their own staff on this is the word we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about the word honesty today. And it's somebody that they recognize from their school who is making that video sending that video out to the classrooms on a weekly basis, right. Instead of them to see my face, which, you know, I I've done the videos for backup, but at the same time, it's like, you know what? They don't know who I am. Right. They know who their teachers are, their principals and fellow students.
Yeah. And you're absolutely right. They're going to remember when you put emotion with something that you learn you for me, that's when you remember. So yeah. That kid's going to remember that day that he was helping, you know, they're going to remember these things cause we're putting emotion with it. I guarantee that the kid has no idea what they did in school that day. Absolutely not. There's no way. He remembers a damn thing from class two plus two, whatever it was. I guarantee he doesn't remember a damn thing, but he remembers that and he will
Mean you imagine that young man go home to his parents and saying, you know what I did today, I helped a buddy find a tooth on the playground. He didn't say a thing about what happened in the classroom, nothing in the lunch room. There's nothing exciting in there, but he's T he's telling you what he's learning. Yeah. And that was his idea, right? That was his idea. Sean, you brought up earlier of affirmations for ourselves. And I was doing a quick read through the book of James of all places this last week. And there was one verse that stood out to me and it was like, wow, I've never seen that before in all the years that I've looked through that particular book, but in verse 25 in the first chapter, it says that a person of action finds delight and affirmation in that action.
And so it dawned on me one day, okay. We can actually encourage ourselves by way of acting on what we need to act on for other people during the day. So what I've ended up doing is I created a new created a new term. And it is going into a book. I don't know when it will be published, but it is going to do a book. And the new word is attitude. No, there's a lot of people that always go around and say, you didn't have a positive attitude, you to work on your attitude. And for me coming out of a very serious brain surgery experience, having a positive attitude, just wasn't cutting the mustard, right. It just wasn't happening all the time because I did battle through a, a big big season of depression. And I thought, I'm not going to let this I'm not gonna let this get me.
I'm going to battle through this and make the most of it that I can. And what I started doing was I started calling five people a day to affirm them and to encourage them and much to my surprise, every I hung up, I was encouraged. I was affirmed, Hey, you lifted somebody up today. Way to go. Yeah. And and I, I think that adding action to my attitude has really helped me to move in towards towards the positive life that I want. And so I really am pretty sure it's about that new word just for myself, if that's all the person that helps, it's fine, but actitud in acting my way into a positive life that has a lot to do and feeds right into this hero builder program. Yeah.
Yeah. And you know, and that's the thing. We can't have what we don't give. And that's, it's a kind of a, to me it's a, it's a law of the university, you know, we, we cannot have what we don't give and if we don't give gratitudes, we don't give, you know, uplifting advice or uplifting feelings and emotions to other people. We, we don't, you know, we can't necessarily have them ourselves. We have to give them always give before you get, that was a hard lesson to learn for me. I was always wanting to just, I just want them all. Yeah. I learned that you have to give, to get it's, it's kind of a law.
Yes. Kind of a law. And it's kind of funny how that works. Isn't that? Sure. Yeah.
Tell me a little bit about a John Maxwell. I know you're involved with the John Maxwell team as well. And that is, to me, that's such a fantastic organization from over many different aspects, but from a leadership and from a coaching aspect, it is a, that is one fantastic company or one fantastic family, I guess you could say of people. It's a huge, huge group, but it is a very meaningful,
It is. It is Sean, right. I S I started my JMT journey back in 2014. And I had just I had just got, got myself into the middle of his church plant that I was doing, but it just for me personally I have had a rough go in church work. It's not always been rough, but there's been some rough spots and I needed kind of a, and you said the word earlier, kind of a family variance in my personal development. And I was at a place where I needed to grow myself more. I had spent years and years growing and serving others. And I made the big mistake of forgetting to grow myself and forgetting to lead myself in all of the things that I was telling other people to do for them. I think John has said before that it's it's easy to lead other people, but it's really, really difficult to lead yourself.
And I had that task in front of me. And when I joined the JMT and ended up going to Orlando, Florida for the first international Maxwell conference, I didn't know what to expect. I just was glad to be around like minded people. Yeah. And like valued people when that first session happens, when they stand on their chairs in this big ballroom full of people, holding up numbers, saying, Hey, come over here, sit with us, you know, can you make sure on your landlord, you've got the right number. You're at the right table. Once I got to the right place where I was setting, I just kind of had to sit there and tear up for a minute because I knew I was in a good environment. I knew I was in a place of people that were ahead of me, people that were a little bit more intelligent than me in lots and lots of different areas.
And I was really part of the family. And I didn't really feel that way. It should be called the John Maxwell family. Yeah, absolutely felt that way when I was in the room. And a lot of the experience that I had there is kind of weird. I have to, I love to interact and ask people, Hey, how are you doing? What's your name, all of that. But just to step back and let people do that to you was a very different experience. I have served on the president's advisory council through the allaying that they called the impact on. They did a lot of calls through impact on calls, you know, how are you influencing and making a difference in the world? And we would just highlight people that were on the John Maxwell team family throughout the world. And I did that for about two and a half years with Sherry Griffin, who is a fellow JMT here. And we had a ball, we had a ball for the last two and a half years. Just help him bring the best out in others so that they could present themselves well during those calls and the JMG business on the other end it's going okay, but it's not going the direction that I was hoping that it would go right this many years later, but we can't lose hope. We got to keep moving.
Well, no, and, and I think it's really more when you get with likeminded people and it doesn't matter what kind of organization it is, but when you get in with, you know, and, and there's a lot of people in personal development, there's, you know, the Tony Robbins, there's, you know, the John Maxwell, there's so many others out there, but when you get with people who are all hell bent on learning, and they're, they're just, they have a burning passion to learn to grow. I think what comes out of that is much more than just what they're doing or what they're teaching. It, it actually, to me, it grows you in a way, especially when you go to these huge events. And when you go to these events, the energy that people put out, the energy that you get, the energy you receive to me is far more valuable than the content you learn or the things you learn, because at those exact moments, that's when we grow.
I mean, that's when we get that burst of energy from, you know, three, four, five, 6,000 people, there's nothing like that. I mean, that, that is such a, and I think God, that's one thing with, you know, with what's going on. I think that we're going to miss that more than anything is we can do these things online. We can do these big conferences online, but we don't have that energy. And you do get some, but you just don't have that energy that everyone's giving out. I personally cannot wait until we can go back to do, to do those things.
Oh, you don't want that as actually, right. I, I know and respect that. They're really making the leader shift this year, this, this month actually to do the virtual international Maxwell event, but you're right. I won't name her by name here, but I always, for the last five years, I always looked forward to showing up at the, I am she's I know you're talking about you're going down, you're talking about it. She's there to hug you.
You ever tried to not get hugged.
I have tried to not get hugs
First year there. I was like, okay, well, what's going on? I go down, I
She literally tackled me to give me a hug. So that was,
Oh, she's a fantastic person. And not only is it there at that event, by the way it is beyond that event. Yeah, no one of the things that happened, you know, because of the brain surgery I experienced at the end of 2018 she gave me a call right around January of 19. She gave me a call just to see how I was doing. I didn't even know that she knew I had this massive procedure and a was home recovering from it, but somehow she knew, and she just had to reach out and give her a phone call and hug you through the phone line. And that's the kind of person that she is. Yeah. And then you entered the big room and it's like, okay, there's, there's more people like her in here. And you almost have to say, you know, what enough hugs already?
Okay. I've got to find my seat. I don't know if you've had the privilege of speaking during one of these stage times during the IMCs live, I've got a chance to do a couple of those. And you prepare, you prepare as much as you can and being a minister and a speaker. I didn't think it was possible to speak in under three minutes and say anything. And then we had learned with our speaking coach and I was able to do that. But I remember the very first time that I spoke from the stage at an IMC, and it was in 2015 and Les Brown was there and he was invited into the room to be called up front, to speak into us. And I thought, wow, what a great, what a great communicator. He is the best. And man, the guy that God has got to speak after him, man, good luck. And Ronnie takes the mic and he says, okay, boy, would you come up front? I thought, Oh no. And I remember whispering in his ear. That's not fair.
You just have less Brown up here. And then he called on me, but I went ahead and did the best I could. And, and what have you went back to my seat and thought, man, I hope I didn't wet myself here. It was just a great opportunity. And it does build your encouragement in yourself just by being able to be in a room like that. And it doesn't matter to me. The standing ovations are there and, and ready to ready and queued for everybody. It doesn't matter. It just does something to, yeah. And it's good. So you're, you're almost ready to get back on that plane and go back to your home state and make a difference. Cause you know, you're not alone. There's a thousands of people around the world doing the same thing.
Yeah. I remember the first time I had to get up and speak on at a JMT and it was probably the most frightening thing I'd done. And, but then I look back and it's like, I could have without John Maxwell, that team and that whole building into ourselves, I would never be able to do a podcast like this. Absolutely not. I could not. It w it took almost every ounce of courage when they, when they first, do you remember when they say whoever has a red dot under their chair? Know, I don't want to give too much up. You might have to come up. I was two seconds from getting up and out the door. So just the growth that happens in those environments is absolutely unbelievable. So what part of New Mexico are you in?
I am in Rio. Rancho, New Mexico. Albuquerque. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right outside of Albuquerque. Not very far from there. And so I get to interact with a few JMT peers who are in this area, at least the ones that reached back out and you don't want to be forceful and all of that. But you know one of those JMT years, her and I, speaking of podcasts, we started a podcast also. And what is so funny is that we don't have a clue what we're doing, but we're, we're, we're doing what we've been told. We're we're building our wings on the way down. Do it messy. We're yeah, we're doing, we're doing, you know, like what your podcast titled is, we're thinking big man. We're we don't know if this is going to go anywhere. I just want to monetize it in any way, shape or form, but you know what? We're having a good time doing it. And we are interacting with people that really just want to be heard and they want to be seen. And a podcast has been a great way to give them a voice.
It's all about taking action, big, hairy, dirty action. Get in there and get that crap done.
I like it. So the one thing that you hear at every
Restaurant, you'd go to an Albuquerque as a red or green,
Red or green. I'm red, you know, you're red. I used to be green. Oh, I can't do green. And especially if it's hot, if it is, I wouldn't do a place out here. I'll say the name of the place. Sadie's I love Sadie's. Oh, say this is one of my favorite you're you're you're originally from around here too. Aren't you? I grew up in Santa Fe. So, you know, Sadie's do, the lady came over to the table. She said red or green, and I didn't know what to say. So I say green, and when she brought me back my plate, I got one bite off of that plate and I couldn't feel my face and said, do you want to have the box set up? I don't need, I don't even know if I'm talking correctly right now. I can't feel anything.
I think didn't they just close the original Sadie's down because of this. Yeah. That's what I heard. That's that's unfortunate.
Yeah, it is. You know, you go to one, you go to shady. Is there a place like that? That gives green seriously hot chili. You can go right directly to the dentist and have them do whatever they want,
Because it doesn't matter. You can't feel a damn thing. And you've got your sinus is clear.
I would guess that
If you went there, it might actually cure COVID
It might actually just take care of it. We just need to ship that stuff everywhere.
Yeah, you should. You should get, get in touch with the right people and tell them that increase the green Kelly sales around here and cure COVID
That's right. Well, I'm telling you, it's it's been an absolute pleasure and blast having you on the podcast. The information is, is fantastic. What's the best place for people to contact you?
Well, I would say right now the best place is a email address. I've got, I've got a couple of websites that are kind of in transition right now. I'm trying to hang on to the domains and what have you. But the best place to reach out to me is hero builder 2020 at Gmail. Okay. And if anyone wanted information on the hero builder program, that's a great place to get in touch with this. If they also wanted to just reach out for a little encouragement for themselves. Yeah. Love to do that, but that's a great place to reach out to me and my cohost on the podcast that I'm doing is Stacy Johnston. And she and I both look at that website that, that Gmail account and make sure that there's nobody in there that we've not noticed who has sent maybe a recent email in our direction. So we're, we're we're just trying to be as encouraging and as as positive of individuals as we can, or the people that we get to deal with on a daily basis. And yeah,
And also the people that are listening to this podcast right now, jump over to that podcast. It's the, he rebuilt if they just type in, he wrote builder in their podcast platform, they're going to, they're going to find it.
Yeah, I think, I think they they'll be able to find it. Mine is a very, very simple right now, and it's on anchor.fm and it's a free platform. And that was that was a big plus for me that it was free and a good place to can just get started. Yeah. That's exactly what, what we're doing with that, but I'm glad what you're doing and what you're doing on thinking big a podcast and Jackie, just encouraging people in the way that you are. And you know, just making sure that you know, people that that are out there not only have a voice, but but they also can get a word of encouragement and, and they can get an also an action step. Hopefully they can take an action step away and say, Hey, I'm going to go be helpful to somebody today. I'm going to go, I'm going to go be respectful to my day and lift up their spirits. And hopefully in turn, that will lift up mine and nine times out of 10. It absolutely does that. And and yeah, this has been a great, great time that they show. I appreciate you,
You know, and all this is going to be in the, in the show notes as well at the links to to get ahold of get ahold of you. And again, I'm, I think I'm gonna go find someone's tooth today. I think that's my goal. I'm gonna go find someone's tooth.
You know what? You, you go and do that. And hopefully it's not one of mine.
I hope it's not one of mine. I can't find my own, but it's been, it's been fantastic having you on and I can't wait to, so are you going to be on the end of August on the virtual,
I am not going to be on the virtual. I'm going to take a, what they call administry. Of course I'm not in a big church right now, doing anything with the staff, but a, what they call it, an administry is a sabbatical and I'm sure to step back and do a little bit of reflection and stuff. And you know, what, what you guys got in store for me and kind of reassess things and readjusting things. I think that's going to be important for me
Without reflection. All of our journey is a much less insightful. We've got to look back and kind of take an inventory and look at what we've learned. I think that's an important step that many don't many don't do. They don't take step back and, and learn from, from what we've gone through.
Absolutely. Yeah. Have you ever heard the term you've got to connect the dots? Yep. You got to take time to connect the dots. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it does. It really feels like that. And I, I told someone last week and I've been trying to connect the dots for so long, Sean, that it feels like I am an employee at the dip and dots, ice cream, you know what it is tedious at times, but I think we, we still have to keep trying to connect those dots and see, what am I, what am I supposed to do? What shift do I need to make to enter into the next thing, right. Is, you know, this for me. Yeah,
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, again, it's been a pleasure having you on, I look forward to talking in the future and again, thank you so much for providing so much you know, insight and so much information to, to my listeners. And, and, and hopefully I know for a fact that people listening are going to get something out of this. So I truly appreciate your insight.
Yeah. Thank you very much, Sean. I appreciate you having me on today.